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Local Environment Heroes
Local Environment Heroes brings you a series of chats with amazing local heroes from Canberra and further afield who are doing ace things for our world.
This podcast is produced and supported by the Canberra Environment Centre, including hosts Julie Boulton, Jennifer Pinkerton, Ryan Lungu and Fiona Veikkanen.
Local Environment Heroes
Season 4, Episode 1: Amy Carrad — Changing the Way We Eat
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In this episode of Local Environment Heroes, we talk with Dr Amy Carrad about the power of food to create environmental and social change.
Amy explores how the way we grow, produce, share and eat food is shaped not just by individual choices, but by the systems, policies, and communities around us. We talk about what it takes to build a fairer and more sustainable food system, the role of people-powered policy, and how communities can influence the decisions that shape our everyday lives.
Amy also shares what inspires her work, what she's learned about creating meaningful change, and why food can be such a powerful place to start.
Season Four Hosts: Jennifer Pinkerton & Julie Boulton
Sound editing: Will Tinapple, Formation Studios
Partners: SEE Change & Conservation Council of the ACT Region
Local Environment Heroes is a Canberra Environment Centre podcast celebrating the people working to create a healthier, more sustainable and connected community.
Find out more and get involved: canberraenvironment.org
Follow the Canberra Environment Centre on Facebook and Instagram for upcoming events, workshops, and stories from our community.
Thanks for listening; environmental change starts with people. 🌱
Hello and welcome to Local Environmental Heroes, the podcast where we chat with people creating a more just and sustainable future. Right here in Canberra. Today we're joined by Dr. Amy Carrard, a researcher at the Australian National University, whose work explores food systems, public policy, and health equity. Amy looks closely at power and privilege, who gets a say in shaping our food system and who doesn't, and what that means for what ends up on our plates. She's also actively involved in this space beyond academia, including with the Agroecology and Food Soverenity Alliance, the Canberra Region Local Food Strategy, and Sea Change. Amy, welcome. So great to have you here.
SPEAKER_00Thanks for having me on. Woohoo! I'm so excited that we're finally back to do this podcast, and I'm so excited to have you here, Amy. What we want to start with, that was a great intro by Jen, but there were so many big words in there. So food systems, health equity, food sovereignty, like explain all of that it is that you do. Like, what does all of this mean and what are you contributing to?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so I have a background in public health. I did a Bachelor of Public Health and then did an honours research project and went on to do my PhD. And then at the conclusion of that, overlapping with the end of my PhD, I started working on a research project led by Belinda Reeves, and we were looking at local governments and their food system policies in New South Wales and Victoria. So all of the local governments in those areas. And before that, I'd also been volunteering in a lot of kind of food, community food organizations. And so that research project was this perfect spot of merging my research skills that I learnt through doing my PhD and the passion that I had for the topic around food systems. And so I was working on that project for three years. And then that came to an end. And I moved to Canberra for the work that I do now, which was a really big shift. I'd never really done like reading about power and all those theories behind all that. But that's what I got thrown into. And that was great just to actually sit and read about that stuff for kind of the first six months of the work. And so the project I'd been working on up until kind of now was um, we now call it the privilege project. It was all about that. It was all about privilege, power, elites, and advantage and how that ends up shaping health equity rather than looking at disadvantaged populations, like a lot of policy and research does.
SPEAKER_00So is this sort of about who makes the decisions?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we have a really strong focus on governance in the research team that I'm in. So how governance systems and institutions policies end up shaping health down the line. We don't overtly look at healthcare. We're about policies and systems that end up shaping health. So that might be, and you know, I work on food systems policy, but it might be economic policy or our housing policies and those sorts of things end up shaping people's life opportunities and thus their health.
SPEAKER_00Okay. At a really basic level, can you just explain to us the link between health and food systems?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, food is what obviously keeps us alive and healthy. Or, you know, there's kind of just existing and there's also being healthy with nutritious food. And so the way that our food systems operate determines what is available to us locally, what we can purchase. Yeah. And so therefore, what we're eating, that's way too simplistic. But that's kind of like what we put in our mouth shapes how healthy we are. But there's all these other factors around that that end up determining what those things are that we put in our mouth.
SPEAKER_00And they're all the factors that you're looking at.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I guess I probably don't even look at all of them. Yeah. Food is everything. Like health is everything. Health is connected to everything, but so is food. It's tied up with all the all these different policies, like trade policy and all these things that we probably don't think about when we think about food, but that really does end up shaping what is available in our I don't want to just say supermarkets, but in the food environments around us and then what we can purchase.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_02Big subject matters. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's kind of life.
SPEAKER_02It is everything. Yeah, yeah. Food is everything.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So can you tell us a little bit about your values? Like knowing what you know, and you said your journey, like you've always been involved in the food system in some way, like not just through your academic research, but in how you live your life. You rode your bike here today, and I was at a talk you gave where we didn't talk about Impact Hour, where you were talking about simple choices you can make at the supermarket. What I find interesting sometimes is when you know a lot, it's almost like it becomes even harder to make any decisions because you stand there and you can be so you're like paralyzed by this indecision. Like you it could be this or it could be that, and I know the right, I I know how this links to that. Like, how do you cope with going to a supermarket on a day-to-day basis?
SPEAKER_02I try to, and I guess for listening speaking, to not put the supermarkets up on a pedestal. That has that's become part of our world, particularly in Australia and countries like us, that supermarkets are the main model for where people can get a lot of their food. But I I don't want to be negative this whole podcast and I will answer your question. But that is just a particular model of the food environment that we have these, particularly in Australia, are two major supermarkets that control a huge market share of the Australian food retail supply chain. So I I get most of my fresh produce at independent grocers, like not cold in the least. Um it's better generally better quality and it's not the big tuboli that I'm supporting in that way. Staples I still get from there. But food is also so individualized and personal. Yeah, yeah. And I would have like in the past, I would have been like, I'm vegetarian, but I would eat anything. And then I had a period where I got really strict about what I was eating in a really bad way. So um it's it's really not a great solution. I'm gonna go back to the research world, like to say to people, like to be healthy, eat healthy food. Like it just doesn't work for various reasons.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I think then living that experience myself made me realise that more. Like I still have a lot of choice because I'm very privileged and I have the financial means to buy what I want, unlike other people. But yeah, having dietary issues has really made me appreciate how constraining it can be to go, okay, I can't just eat from the pool of everything that there is. I actually can't do that anymore.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Okay. What's how shaped your values?
SPEAKER_02It's such a tough question. I I don't really know what it shaped it, but I guess maybe to maybe think about maybe what my values are first. That I feel like we live in this world together. And that is just a big communal pool. And so for me, that means like needing to give back to that, to make that good for the people that live around me, but of course, like around the world, what we do in particular ways influences other people's lives that we don't even know where that came from. It's gonna sound cliche and it'll tie back to uh maybe another question later. Like my parents, I think, are such good role models for me. Yeah. And they are out there doing things, they're both retired now, but they just spend all of their time volunteering in things for society and for the environment. And we've always been like an outdoorsy people. And so that has been like valuing that, valuing being able to go outside and be in beautiful environments and needing to care for that, for them to exist. But I don't know, it's really hard to think back to where do things come from. Yeah. It just makes sense to me out. So the things you have to do if you want to have a good life and have other people have a good life around you.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02I love that ethical stance about how what each of us do impacts everyone else. I've heard you mention before living in the Wollongong region and discovering Green Connect and what a great model about you is. It's other that that was something that really shaped where you've ended up. Is that the case? And yeah. How do you think about that now? Yeah, Green Connect was a huge part of my Wollongong time, particularly closer to the end. So I was in Wollongong for just over a decade. So I did all my university uh all my undergraduate honours PhD, and I took my time to do my PhD. So Green Connect's a social enterprise, and they had various arms within that. So like an op shop and they did labor hire, staffing solutions. But they also had this farm, this urban farm. And I started volunteering there at some point. They had seasonal working days, so like once every quarter, and I'd go along to those, and then became more involved. And I was maybe going once a month. And then at some point, I was going once a week, so every Friday. And I was so fortunate that I was able to keep doing that all through the pandemic, like all through the lockdowns. We were still able to go and do that because it was valued as critical work. It was the providing food. So they were growing predominantly vegetables, a bit of fruit, and they also had some animals on the land, and then they had veg books subscribers. But it was it's a hard model. Like social enterprise, I think is great, but it is quite hard because it relies on a lot of volunteering, extra contribution to volunteering. But it was just such a great thing, and they were giving jobs to former refugees and young people that were disengaged from school. And just what better place could you can do that? Those wholesome things and dig lots of trenches, which I just loved. The manual labour, it was so physical.
SPEAKER_00And so different to sitting behind a desk and eating.
SPEAKER_02I love that little window into what thing could be like. But to take it a little bit back to your research, so your research focuses on power and privilege in public policy. How do those things actually show up in our seed systems? And who gets to decide what ends up on our plate? Yeah, so this is, as I said, this is coming to Canberra, and the work that I'm doing now is a much newer space to me. So I still sometimes feel like I struggle to articulate it. And there's people out there who have been doing this research for a really long time and they're wonderful leaders and people to follow in the footsteps. I was But in terms of the privilege aspect, particularly from a public health background, so public health research and public health policy, like policy for health, tends to often focus on what might be called like disadvantaged or marginalized population groups. So, say, like example, like lifting people out of poverty. And that's really important, and that work needs to continue to happen. But the angle that the team that I'm working with, it's led by Ashley Schram, is looking at the other end of town, so the top end of town, to the elites and people who hold a lot of power in the world. So that might be like economic power, they've got lots of money, like people in America that we won't name because we don't like them that much. But but it's also things like political power and what that means to be able to shape decisions. And in food systems, broadly across the world at the moment, now we have food systems that are really driven by corporations and they have amassed all of those things. They've amassed a lot of economic power as well as political power, and also we call it like discursive power, so like the way that they narrate and the stories that they tell. And I find that space really fascinating because discursive power and those stories, this become so routine, and we always use that. I think one that's really dominant at the moment is like people talking about cost of living crisis. And if we're looking at privilege and thinking about this, it's like we just have well then we don't just have, we have an inequity crisis and inequality crisis. There are enough things in the world, there are enough resources to sustain people, but they are so inequitably distributed that some people have a lot and many people don't have enough.
SPEAKER_00I was gonna ask you about that, like food stats. What are the statistics in Australia if you want to check in your head?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so quite roughly we don't have great statistics on food insecurity. So people that uh don't have enough food or enough nutritious food, but that can also food insecurity can also be like you don't have culturally appropriate food. Yeah. So it's about quantity, quality, but also mere cultural appropriateness and other things. We don't have great stats on that, and the Australian government doesn't collect routine data on that. So there's a lot of people advocating for that to happen. But places like food bank, and so some not-for-profits and organizations, they do these data collections which give us an approximate. So it's between one in eight and one in three households would come into that food insecurity category. So if we're talking about households, that's not also just individuals. So one in three. One in three, yeah. So don't have enough food or yeah, it's not nutritious food that they're eating. Yeah. Which is crazy because we are such a wealthy country. But we in Australia, a lot of our food is exported. So this is going back to that discourse in the stories, the food industry in inverted commerce and even governments, they they tell this story that Australia is a food secure nation because we export 70% of what we produce in Australia. But then we look at what is the food and agriculture organization at the international level, and that definition of food security being about that quantity, quality, and cultural appropriateness, we we are not food secure in Australia because there are too many households that don't have enough enough food. So we've got on one hand government saying there's not a problem because we export so much, but other statistics tell us but there is a problem because we're not distributing that food to people in Australia in a way that's a good thing.
SPEAKER_00It depends what you count then, doesn't it? If you're counting like what is success, is success exporting or is it feeding the population you have?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And how visible are these like food insecure populations or demographics? At the moment, I would say becoming a lot more visible. We've got food relief charities and organizations are reporting mass increases in people seeking charitable food relief, which is needed, but is not the end goal of the food system that I would like to see. Like even people that work in the food security, sorry, the food relief sector, they say, I want to be out of a job because people doing and getting charitable food relief is not a dignified way of getting food. That is not food security. You often don't have the choice. You're forced to take what's available and you just don't have that agency, like those of us that can walk into the shop of our choice, be it at a supermarket or go to the farmer's market and choose what they want. So it's visible in that sense that people do go and rely on services to do that and they're capturing statistics statistics and that that increase in the reliance on those coming about through things like COVID when people lost their jobs, and at the moment, with the cost of things increasing, a lot more people are relying on that. But a lot of it's hidden because we don't capture data on it properly.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Who exactly are those households? Like it would also be a lot of people in regional and remote areas. Food is far more expensive, there are fewer stores, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people in in all areas, but particularly in remote areas for them, food is so much harder to even access. Yeah, yeah. And then the price of it is crazy. But there's some really I don't do this work, but there's colleagues that do work in that space around increasing agency and food security in those much more remote communities, working from the bottom up and working with communities to say, how can we help you rather than coming in and saying, this is what we're gonna do. Yeah. And speaking of those levers for change, like particularly when you look at like the big corporations that you mentioned, people often feel pretty powerless in the face of these mega mega companies. What do you see as points where change might be possible? It's yeah, it's hard. And I think I still don't really have all the answers to that. If you're talking about what people can do, really the thing that comes to mind is vote wisely.
SPEAKER_01No.
SPEAKER_02But I think even if we vote wisely at the moment, there are so many structures in place that still would inhibit getting that change that would be needed to curtail that power of the corporations. So just thinking about how like lobbying. All these corporations have lobbyists that are walking in the halls of parliament. Yeah, and it's the resources industry. Yeah. Like they just get to walk in and chat to whoever they want. And so having greater transparency around those sorts of things and political donations, a lot of people are calling for that. And transparency is great, but it doesn't move. It needs transparency and more. But I guess I want to stress too that I don't want to demonize that people have to go and shop at Colesworth. That is just that is necessary, and that's what we're in at the moment, and that's if that's what people are capable of doing, that that is important. And tying in that privilege lens, it some people are like, oh, just go shop at a farm factor or go shop at the bulk food store. They are more expensive a lot of the time. And they're not always in control areas. Yeah, if they get back in here.
SPEAKER_00Get to if you've got caring responsibilities. There are different solutions for different people, right? I remember having this conversation years ago with people who were in the privileged position of being able to afford solar panels at the time. And their whole mantra was we can afford it. So therefore we should put solar panels on because we can be the early adopters. And then hopefully then it makes it easier for people who are coming afterwards. So maybe it is for those people who are in privileged positions thinking about what their choices are, because then that will make it easier for other people who are not so privileged at the moment.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, definitely. And we look locally, we've got organizations like Southern Harvest that do the food systems differently. They have local growers, but they obviously rely on too on that, as you say, on that demand. Can we just explain what Father and Harvest is to spread? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Canberra regional cooperative, farmers cooperate. Yeah. Bought together local farmers and then boxing it up.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, see I guess it's similar to Green Connect in the sense that you can get vegetable boxes from them, but it's more of a hub that they accumulate produce from different suppliers and that goes into the boxes. Yeah. Yeah. So sudden harvest, like I guess in our camera region or wherever you live, that yes, you're right. If you can, if you're in that position where you can financially do that and you hold ethical value, that's a good thing to do it. Because then it helps them have the demand to expand their operations. Yeah. You do need these early adopters to say, is this worthwhile an organization trying to expand? If no one follows them as a customer, then it doesn't work out for them. Because bigger systems at play though aren't there like just every like the busyness that everyone talks about and yeah, like making the tone to incorporate changes like that. Yeah, yeah, 100%. I I find it fascinating now that normally you go, you ask someone like, How are you doing? And everyone just responds busy all the time. And I'm conscious of that, and I am, but I try not to answer that because it's repetitive and boring. I think and how, yeah, we've gotten to this point where we're yeah, so busy all the time. And that exhaustion leads into our food choices, like yeah, too hard in your reach for the convenience. But you mentioned earlier I ride my bike everywhere, and I love that pace. Yeah. Our way of not being busy because it just takes me more time to get from A to B and process things and reflect. Yeah, yeah. Just because I think it's funny. Like I spoke in Woggle a few weeks about a month ago.
SPEAKER_00Yes, I heard about this soon. Like I rode my bike there. Just unbelievable. So it took two days, right? And I love how you had a backup crew. So she was telling you your story at Impact Hour. And had a backup crew, but the backup crew were based in Canberra. And I'm like, well, hang on, like you're like a hundred kilometres, two hundred kilometres down the road. Why are you gonna wait for three apples for them to turn up?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but it just made sense to me. I'm like, because I ride my bike and I don't have a car, and that's just what I do. And so I looked at the distance and I went, Oh, it's not too bad. Yeah, it was really hard. It must be really easy, yeah. Really hard. But I looked at the distance and went, oh, it's not too bad. I could do that in a couple of days.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02And then I rode it and I Did you ride back as well? Yeah. Yeah, wow. Yeah. Um, so I was going to the harvest the harvest festival and speaking there. So they had yeah, amazing local suppliers that they were using for their catering, and yeah, other people there were this fantastic hub that they'd set up, like a grower's hub, and it was this great model that they've got there. But I guess, yeah, it was just that I was doing it because I wasn't in a rush. Yeah. Just take a couple of days off work, either side of it to write and just a couple. It was beautiful, like the birds were incredible.
SPEAKER_00Wow. Yeah, stuff that you'd say that you just really want to see if you're in the car line.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I I love that. Yeah. The choices that you make, like with your lifestyle that are like in line with that, like you mentioned.
SPEAKER_00Like about living deliberately.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah, like just about like your clothing choices and food choices. And is there anything else that you wanted to share about the way that you live that dovetails with your research into food systems? I feel really conflicted about this. I'm gonna be honest, because that's good. Even though I do all this research on food systems and we've talked about Southern Half and Green Connect, like I have never subscribed to a local veg bar. I guess initially it was for those financial reasons. Like as a university student, that felt out of reach. And now it's more like the dietary issues that I have, like intolerances and those sorts of things that make that feel. Feel a bit daunting because you're not in control. I would have loved to have that, just taking whatever I was given and dealing with that. Um I don't I mean what I'm wearing today was all from an op shop. Yeah, with no sorry nothing.
SPEAKER_01I did pick this up on a market from a bike ride from Kempsey to Newcastle that I did use.
SPEAKER_02Is it mushrooms in there? They are mushrooms, yeah. And like a resin inside of wood cafe, very cool. Yeah, but I just I'm so conscious of talking about preaching about how I live my life because I have so much privilege. Yeah, yeah. And that is just not a position that other people will always have. And just conscious, like I had a great upbringing, my parents have were employed and didn't want for anything, and that has been my luck in life all the way through. And I this really ties to our research about the privileged stuff to say it's not necessarily how hard you work, but it is what you're born into. Yeah. And how the structures around us then shape that. Yeah, I had a great education because I was in a location that had great schools and all these things and not not about how good you are as a human, but just actually just where you're born is quite lucky. Good points. I guess we've talked about some of the things that are broken or not working, like with Australia's food systems. But I'm wondering what gives you hope when you look at the current system. Are there any little groups or actions or movements that you draw hope from? Yeah, I mean in Australia and more broadly as well. So I mentioned earlier about how much food Australia exports after they grow it. And talking about those narratives and the stories that corporations tell us, so they'll say we're here, we're feeding the world. But a lot of food production across the world is actually done by like small-scale and family-owned farms. And they're particularly the small-scale farmers, and they with places like Green Connect, they're quite small, have I just think a different values alignment. Corporations are there, like their bottom line is profit. Yeah. That is 100% what they are there for and shareholder returns. But when you get to more down to that people scale and that smaller scale, that value system is very different. So that gives me hope, right? That you see that not everyone is part of a corporation and there are people continuing to fight and push back against those bigger systems. So you mentioned the agroecology and food sovereignty alliance. So they're based here on this continent. And they represent small-scale farmers across Australia, but they're part of a bigger movement. The La Via Campesina isn't this massive food sovereignty movement around the world. That is just it's huge. It's like the biggest movement, I think, internationally. And they represent like peasant farmers and small-scale future folk and food system workers. And yeah, that that brings me hope because they're not giving up. People are still out there doing that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_00I'm gonna ask the first hero cross-ball leaves. Right. So you congratulations, you've just been elected president of the world. What is the one change you try to implement or you do implement because you're the president?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. So I was thinking about this last night and I wrote down two.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because one's really hard. Yeah. And they're really different levels. So one was to cap world, have no billionaires. Yeah. Love it. Yeah. So that ties into that work we've been doing around privilege and elites. Yeah. And there's again, people have worked in this space. There's a great person, Ingrid Rubens. She's putting forth this concept of libertarianism, which is about that capping wealth. So we say there's a line that we accept that people should not be below in terms of poverty.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But we don't have that feeling. We don't have a feeling on wealth. And that becomes really problematic in terms of building more wealth doesn't actually make and you as an individual more healthy after a certain point. Yeah. Or more better off in the world, happier. And it's really problematic politically. So that was the one, no billionaires cap wealth. And the other one was really different. But having like regular arrangements and days off so community and social contributions. Oh no. Really like that. And I was speaking to someone recently who said they couldn't remember which organization it was or business company, but that someone has yeah, someone somewhere has implemented that. Like you get days of leave to go and do good things. Because I think it comes to that busyness. Like people like, I'm too busy, I've got to work all the time. But if we all just had an agreement that there was X number of days needed, it took us. You didn't have to work, so paid work to do things that you wanted to do, would be great. Yeah, particularly if you're doing that alongside other people, because that ties into the blandness epidemic.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And other kind of crises within society. I think yeah, it's beautiful. I've had the a similar thought. So it's really nice to hear you boys that. I wonder who your environmental heroes are. Yeah, so I mentioned this earlier, so it sounds corny, but my mum and dad was funny. Mum and dads. They've just, and I wrote down another word, I was like, they're doers. Yeah. And I love me a doer, not a gunner. Just to go, this thing is important. No one else is doing it, or maybe other people are doing it, but I'm just I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna make it happen. And yeah, they're out there doing it all the time. So they're retired, but they still just go out and they do all their things. They're out there at bushcare, they're out there like weekly or monthly helping their Greens candidates. They're just doing all the things. I think they're doing more now that they're retired than when they were employed in paid work. And but it's important too to notice that I think they're burnt out and you can do too much as a retired. But as a retiree, Andy, too busy. Yeah. And you do need to, in some times, put yourself first in that respect. But yeah, they're just been there for me all the time as well. So they're yeah, they've always been parts of environmental movements and just always been doing those things.
SPEAKER_00Oh, lovely. Okay, and then last question. What's a mantra or a quote, like something inspiring that you live by or you'd like to share with Alice since? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I don't think this really has any relation to anything we've spoken about today, but I think it's broadly applicable to many situations. It's always worth asking. The worst someone will say is no.
SPEAKER_00No. I said that just today to ask. Maybe.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you should ask like you're the president of Canberra, rather. President of the If we look ahead 10 years to 2036, what's a change you'd like to see in Canberra? How might this lift our city? What would be your vision for Canberra? So I'm on the board of Thange and I see the work that SeaChange and Canberra Environment Centre and other community organizations are doing, but they are so stretched. And so the thing that I wanted to see was that organizations like this would have secure ongoing funding, like core funding, but also homes, so secure tenure of a facility that suits their purposes. There's a lot of commercial buildings that are going up, like apartment blocks with commercial spaces in the bottom, but I think they're not suited to the community and then they're not also available to the community organizations or individuals in certain ways. Investing in that just amplifies the impact that these organizations are having because a lot of them do really tie, rely on volunteer involvement. And that just to me seems like a really simple investment to say if we provide you security, good work continues and you don't have to worry about applying for grants all of the time.
SPEAKER_00Which kind of ties back into nearly everything you've said, right? Like it's all about getting involved, being involved, taking an active part, being a doer. You need the space and the facilities and the organizations there ready for you to be involved and to be a doer.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and amplifying the things and our community values.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Amazing. Thank you so much for taking time to talk to us. It was great to be here.